After eight to nine hours at work, each of us needs a compensation: Those who are very active may read a book in a hammock after work; those who sit in front of the computer all day are more likely to look for an active hobby - like André Siegling. A few years ago, the business informatics specialist discovered beekeeping for himself and even produces the university's own honey, "Campus Kleber". Dirk Alstein talked to our OVGU beekeeper about his hobby and learned, among other things, that you can smell the mood of the bees, that we should worry less about the yellow-and-black-striped little animals and more about other insects, and that the university's bee colony has already been stolen twice.

Guest today

André Siegling works primarily as a research assistant at the SAP UCC at the University of Magdeburg - with 713 affiliated institutions and over 120,000 users per year, it is the largest SAP center of its kind in the world. Siegling, who has a degree in business informatics, works there with colleagues to develop innovative teaching and learning environments for universities, universities of applied sciences, and other educational institutions as part of the SAP University Alliances program. The beekeeper is a member of the German Beekeepers' Association and is responsible for keeping the university's own bee colonies.

*the audio file is only available in German

The Podcast to Read

Intro voiceover: In die Uni reingehört. Der Podcast zur Arbeitswelt an der OVGU.

Dirk Alstein: The very same! And so welcome to the August edition of our podcast! And today it’s going to be relaxing, at least for my interviewee. But more about that later. My guest today is a business information specialist in the Faculty of Computer Science and a research assistant in the SAP University Competence Center. He is also - and this is actually what we are going to talking about today - when not at work, am ardent beekeeper, and in this capacity he is also the producer of our university honey “Campus Kleber” [or Campus Glue]. A very warm welcome, Mr Siegling!

André Siegling: Hello, good morning!

Alstein: Mr Siegling, earlier on you told me to call you “Du” [“Du” is the familiar (informal) word for “you” in German]. I’m just mentioning it now so that nobody wonders. I can call you “Du”, and you can call me “Du”. So, once again, welcome! I’m delighted to have you here. André, you are here fresh from your vacation: is this your first job today?

Siegling: Yes.

Alstein: How often do you think about the bees, back home, when you’re spending a week splashing about in the water?

Siegling: Honestly, not all that much! I have two young children who need entertaining all day; they’re 2 and 5, no, 4 nearly 5, and so actually there isn’t a lot of time for relaxing.

Alstein: Yes, I know the feeling! (laughs)

Siegling: I’m choosing my words carefully. It is a little bit relaxing.

Alstein: But you almost look forward to getting back to your desk, you could say. (laughs) No, no, holidays are definitely better, I know! And of course it is nice to spend some time with the family. How long can you actually leave the creatures alone for? I’m talking about the bees now!

Siegling: The bees get along pretty well without us people. It’s only because of the pests, including the varroa mite, and other factors, that nowadays they actually need sustained care.

Alstein: Is that so? But that wouldn’t be the case for wild bees, right?

Siegling: Less so for the wild bees. But at present the colony-building insects, the honeybees, which, after all, we keep for honey, are struggling against the pests and diseases that attack them. And that is why they need constant care. Theoretically you can leave them alone for longer periods of time, say weeks or even months, without looking at them, and somehow they cope. But a colony like this will in any case generally collapse after perhaps two or three years.

Alstein: Oh really? And would that not be the case in the wild? Has the cultivation of honeybees has actually made them more susceptible?

Siegling: Yes, but it is not necessarily only due to cultivation. It is more the global trade in honeybees that has allowed the varroa mite to be carried around the world. There are also other pests that are slowly reaching us from other directions, for example the small hive beetle.

Alstein: Is that an invasive species?

Siegling: Yes, I don’t know where it originally comes from. As I said, I haven’t prepared!

Alstein: Yes. (laughs)

Siegling: But it is true that we can already see there are more and more coming, in Europe too, from the south, from Italy. And of course if a colony is sent by post over the Alps, something that I am not in favor of at all, then of course [these pests and diseases] can be in the package and quickly spread here.

Alstein: So how is the honey harvest going? Or is it already over? I have learned that there are up to two harvests per year, in early summer, late summer. Is that right?

Siegling: Yes. So for the university honey we have two official harvests, though of course it is however it works out, shall I say. But we decided, because we wanted to give people a degree of certainty, we said that we will have a honey harvest in early summer and in late summer. At the moment [our bees are] in the municipal park (Stadtpark), where there are a lot of lime trees. So that could, of course, be a pure lime tree honey, but unfortunately in the park it often isn’t, because there are also the so-called “trees of heaven” that are interspersed among the limes and which the bees really like to feed from too. It is a tree that, I think, originally comes from Asia, but which grows very well here. It has a smell like elder, as far as both the flowers and the honey are concerned.

Alstein: So very attractive to the bees.

Siegling: Exactly! They like to fly to it and that is why the lime tree honey is often mixed, because it flowers at the same time in later summer or in July, at least.

Alstein: But that doesn’t mean that you don't get any honey, does it? I mean it actually doesn’t matter, or does it, for the flavor, for the production of the honey?

Siegling: Exactly.

Alstein: It actually doesn’t matter which flowers the bees fly to, right? You just won’t be able to write “lime tree honey” on the label.

Siegling: Exactly, we just have blossom honey, or what we can actually do, what we decided to do, is have “late summer blossom honey” or “early summer blossom honey” respectively. Early summer is then mostly the black locust, or false acacia, for example, that we take in there, or everything that blossoms beforehand; the fruit trees.

Alstein: So has the early summer harvest already been brought in?

Siegling: Yes, yes.

Alstein: (laughs)

Siegling: ...we actually have three harvests. The bees are not permanently on the university premises. That is because in the last two years they have been stolen twice.

Alstein: That is something that I wanted to talk to you about. Later on. It is unbelievable. Someone stealing bees. But ok, we will come back to that.

Siegling: Yes. And that is why I always find a different home for them in winter, which is on private land. So in winter we make sure that the creatures are left completely in peace. So more or less, in winter they have a fixed home and in summer I move them around to wherever the flowers are. Some beekeepers “wander” with their bees, where they move them around a lot chasing after the flowers. I don’t like to do that. How we do it is that we build them up in spring and that is also the first big harvest. Then we usually put them close to a rape field. But locally here. Although this year it was actually a bit further away. They were in Schönebeck, 20 km away, but then we bring them back, at the latest when the false acacia is in flower. That isn’t actually an acacia, but the black locust that we have here. And then they come to the municipal park to the university’s wheelhouse.

Alstein: OK. When will we be able to buy this year’s honey? It doesn’t happen as quickly as all that, right? Or is that what is in the shop now?

Siegling: So I call Ms Strebe from the university shop, and now from the book shop, which she also manages. I tell her exactly when everything is happening. Before I went on holiday, there were still a few jars left from last winter. That isn’t bad at all. Yes, and now the first one is actually a very nice acacia honey. Now I say acacia, you could also say honey, but it is actually a black locust honey, and it is nice and runny, it stays runny. That one can go straight into the jar, the labels get put on and they go straight onto the shelf.

The honey of the University of Magdeburg can be bought in the Unishop (Photo: Andrea Jozwiak / Uni Magdeburg)

Alstein: Oh right! That is the kind that we usually get to see in the adverts. Yes, because it looks so golden and transparent and doesn’t get those solid lumps. Which isn’t actually a sign of quality, but ok.

Siegling: OK, natural honey actually always goes solid at some point, it just depends on the blend of sugars. So there are actually different types of sugar, depending on what is in the honey, some crystallize faster and others slower, or ideally not at all, if it is supposed to stay runny, and rape honey is one that actually becomes very solid one or two weeks after harvest, that one you can more or less chisel out of the jar. In the past in some cases it was packaged up like little pats of butter so that it could be put on bread in slices. That’s something I wanted to try some time. And today I actually always leave the honey until it begins to crystallize. Then you can stir it. So on a morning and evening you can stand for ten minutes by the container and stir it until it is creamy and at some point it crystallizes out. You can tell already. It gets a kind of mother of pearl sheen. Not yet how it looks in the jar later on. And then it is actually almost finished, and it stays creamy and then you can spread it nicely on your bread roll.

Alstein: Ah, ok, I understand. I would like to go back to the beginning, to your early days as a beekeeper. As I already said, you are a business information specialist. That doesn't sound like something that you would automatically connect with beekeeping. How do you come to have a hobby like this?

Siegling: I like to work and work a lot, and then somehow I realized that perhaps there was hardly any room, or even no room at all, for any kind of hobbies. Except for a bit of sport. And then I consciously decided to take up a hobby and actively looked around to see what I could do, and again consciously decided against something sedentary where I would be sitting or using a computer, so instead I opted for beekeeping. At the time I didn’t yet know what it entailed, which is lovely, especially with hindsight! You don’t just have to take care of the bees, but of the flowers too, and what flowers when. To begin with, all that I knew was that spring comes, then there are flowers in early summer, and then that's it. Of course it isn’t like that at all.

Alstein: (laughs)

Siegling: Yes, there are flowers blossoming all year round right into the winter, actually, and in the end I really learned a lot over the years. So it was a conscious choice to do beekeeping. And what I expected in the beginning was something quite different from what I eventually experienced.

Alstein: I read in another interview with you that the buzzing of the bees as a sound has a calming effect on you and that you also found it very appealing...

Siegling: Yes.

Alstein: ...when you were looking for a hobby. So I would think “Ok, if it was all about peace and quiet, fishing would have been nice.” So why did you go for beekeeping? There must have been a reason for coming up with it somehow. Maybe you have a friend doing it, or something? Or was fishing just too boring?

Siegling: I used to go fishing.

Alstein: (laughs)

Siegling: ...I already know what it’s like, not all the ins and outs, but I am familiar with it. And no, actually I also wanted to do something that not everyone does. Nowadays it has become a little bit more fashionable.

Alstein: That’s true.

Siegling: A lot of people are doing it now, which is no bad thing. Actually it’s really positive. Especially in Magdeburg. In the beekeeping society the membership is increasing with lots of very young people - back when I joined, I think I had just turned 30, people were very happy that a younger person was getting involved.

Alstein: You were the youngest. I read that too.

Siegling: Yes.

Alstein: They wondered what you were doing there? “Wrong door!”

Siegling: Not quite. There are, of course, other young members, who were already there back then, but it has increased a great deal now.

Alstein: That is my impression.

Siegling: It's nice.

Alstein: Yes, in my circle of friends, actually quite a lot have tried it, even if they haven’t kept at it over the long term. But at least a lot of them are giving a try and staying and actually some of them have been doing it for a while. Nevertheless, there is a risk: some people find bees threatening. Did that never bother you? Or how many stings does it take before you find yourself thinking “That beekeeping thing might not have been the best idea”?

Siegling: So, in comparison with fishing - you get bitten there by the midges.

Alstein: That’s true. (laughs)

Siegling: That is very annoying. So, a bee sting, it hurts for a little while. And the more you get, spread out over a long period of time, of course, it hurts less too. No, it actually doesn't bother me at all, because you can sit with a cup of coffee, if there isn’t a thunderstorm on its way or if you have that funny smell on your body, you can sit straight in front of the entrance holes to the hives and watch from just a meter away. A while ago they were at my parents’ house in Möckern in the garden. Just a little distance from Magdeburg. I think the main path was 3 meters away from the garden... or one of the main paths from the garden... and it was possible to pass by without any worries.

Alstein: But you do have protective clothing on when you want to access the honeycombs?

Siegling: Yes, on the Internet there are even videos of people not wearing anything on their top halves or reaching with a bare hand through a swarm. To a certain extent, I would feel ok doing that, but I don't need to. I am not really that keen on the stings just now.

Alstein: You don’t have to go after the thrills. Yes, and what is that all about with the storms? Why did you just mention them? Are they more irritable then, the bees? Or what's the deal?

Siegling: Oh, I can’t prove it scientifically. But it seems clear that you can tell from the smell - unfortunately I cannot smell it very well - but it is possible to tell from the smell when you are working on the colonies, and from their humming, what mood the insects are in. And, of course, you can also tell from the way they move. So there are guard bees that sit at the entrance, it depends on how nervously they react to an approaching hand. Overall it is possible to see what the mood is in the colony.

Alstein: Yes.

Siegling: And that depends on different factors. Later in the year, the bees, when winter is approaching and they are keener to defend their stocks of honey, they are a bit more nervous; also it can depend on the weather and the temperatures. It can depend on vibrations. So like a jackhammer or what’s it called? Rotary hammer? If there is work going on near the bees and they are startled by the commotion, then of course they notice that too.

Alstein: And leaf blowers, probably, I’m pretty sure they won’t like them either.

Siegling: The bees actually can’t hear. That was something that I had to look up, of course. So bees actually can’t hear, instead they communicate via vibrations. And so from that point of view, a loud noise like that...

Alstein: ...which, however, so to speak, does not generate any vibrations. That has no impact. Ah, right, yes, we are familiar with the pictures from the documentaries. When I see dandelions with my kids... at some point it seems that they communicate among themselves, by, so to speak, doing a waggling dance together and passing information on.

Siegling: Yes, exactly, the bee dance. They either dance in circles or figures-of-eight. They indicate a cardinal direction and distance, and meanwhile they share samples of the honey. Then it is more or less a democratic decision how many bees join in. And they are actually very calculating. So how far away is a source of food? How easy is it to collect, how profitable is it and I don’t know, perhaps how tasty is the nectar that it provides. It isn’t honey yet, after all.

Alstein: Yes.

Siegling: And then at some point off the bees go and collect it.

Alstein: I see. And I always thought... so it is a democratic decision, ok. So it isn’t the case that the queen waves her scepter around and says: “In this direction, south / southeast, 200 meters off you go!” or something like that, no.

Siegling: No, the queen never actually goes outside, apart from right at the beginning or when the bees swarm. Otherwise she is permanently inside in the colony. And then there are individual bees they have a look around in the surrounding area, go collecting pollen. They say around 2 to 5 kilometers, that kind of range, that is the distance that they cover. And in the end they bring samples home with them and distribute them in the hive. You can sometimes see it from the honeycombs, if you look at them close up from the hive entrance. You can often see a dance happening and then it kicks off. Then some of them fly off. And it can definitely be the case that more or less 5 meters away in front of the beehive there is an apple tree. But now I must not mix up the flowers, there is a fruit tree right there, which is just freshly blossoming but then 500 meters away or more, there is a big yellow square in the landscape, the rape field, and of course they fly en masse there, because there are very many flowers in a small area.

The bee colony of the University of Magdeburg (Photo: Anika Kloß / Uni Magdeburg)

Alstein: If I were going to make a decision now: how many other young people - although nowadays I would probably not make much difference to the average age in a beekeeping club - decide to become beekeepers? What should I expect? Because you already said, after all, you had a different expectation actually, of how much time and how much money.

Siegling: So ultimately it is recommended that you find a beekeeping mentor, an experienced beekeeper, who will help you out. It is possible to spend an awful lot of money for a lot of equipment. There is a nice saying: “You can make money with beekeeping”, meaning on the one hand that you can sell the honey and make money, or on the other, that you can sell the equipment. In that case, you can make money by selling supplies to beekeepers. And it is like this: I need one or two beehives, there are many different kinds. You have to try to work out what you think will be the best kind for the bees. Then there are things like a few tools for the hive, usually a bee brush, that you would typically need. I could replace the bee brush, if I were to slaughter my geese myself in the fall, with a goose wing. So I could save some money there, if I wanted to. For a few hundred euros, or also for four-figure amounts, I can buy honey extractors, which I would also need. Or, perhaps, I could loan one from the club or even from my beekeeping mentor. So it varies a great deal. But I want to buy the basic equipment, it is actually very possible for a small to medium three-figure sum.

Alstein: And the bees? What do they cost? Can I buy them from the pet store?

Siegling: No, no! Actually it is possible to order them from the Internet. There are special bee magazines, or I look in the eBay classified ads. I can, as we said earlier, actually buy them by mail order from Italy. I would always recommend buying them from your own area, making contact with the local beekeeping club or other beekeepers and then look to see what is being sold in the spring. A colony generally costs around 100 euros.

Alstein: How many bees would that be?

Siegling: Oh, it varies. Around 10,000 in spring, I’m being cautious here, that number might be wrong. And then, it always depends on whether I have one or two brood chambers. I might be going into too much detail, but they are the boxes that you often see stacked one on top of another. So it depends on the size, but it is usually around the 100 euros mark. Often it is the case, if you do it via a beekeeping mentor, that over the course of the year you can start a bee colony offshoot perhaps for free.

Alstein: So now we are up at around 2,000 euros? No idea.

Siegling: You don’t need that much to get started.

Alstein: One and a half?

Siegling: A beehive, a good one, costs between 150 and 250 euros. If I equip it fully.

Alstein: But with the equipment? What does that bring us to?

Siegling: For 500 euros I can definitely have one to, if it goes well perhaps two, bee colonies.

Alstein: OK, and over time, what should you reckon with?

Siegling: So actually there are not necessarily any ongoing costs. If I keep things nice and small, and only produce honey for myself, then I do not need new equipment all the time. Perhaps I might need... well usually I use wax foundations, which I might have to buy. Wax foundations are what I use to try to show the bees how to build. So that everything is nice and straight...

Alstein: (laughs)

Siegling: ...and that makes things easier to process. There are beekeepers who like that and there are beekeepers who are of the view that you shouldn’t do it anymore. So today I’m not going to take any kind of position. I personally spend a lot of time thinking about what is good or bad, but you do actually get to the point where, when you deliver the honey, you do, of course, sometimes get a couple of euros put into your hand for it. And when you pay attention to ensuring a balance, then things tend to work out and you do not have to spend more money.

Alstein: Yes, but how much time should I expect to have to spend? With a dog I know that I have to go walkies, and somehow I need to fit in a longer walk too. I don’t know, I don’t have a dog, but at least twice a day and then perhaps another trip out too. What should I expect with bees?

Siegling: I tend to visit my bees once a week.

Alstein: Yes.

Siegling: In summer. It starts in the spring. As I said earlier, over the winter I leave them in peace. Then at some point, when the temperatures start to rise nicely, when they are stable, say over 12 degrees, or perhaps 15 degrees, then you can look to see how they have survived the winter. If it is a weaker colony, which is not necessarily a negative thing, then you can, so to speak, dispose of a couple of old honeycombs, reduce the space a bit. So it takes, let me say per colony, perhaps one hour of work to begin with and then over the course of the year, that is until August, traditionally in any case, as I said, you would have to go once a week. The textbooks say probably every 10 days, because that is the cycle for raising a new queen. And actually the beekeeper wants, if he is really chasing the honey yield, to avoid a bee colony splitting, and thus swarming. And that is why he needs to look inside regularly. Nowadays I am not quite so keen. I look at the colonies, see what condition they are in, and, for example, I haven't been for three weeks now.

Alstein: Oh!

Siegling: Simply because I was on holiday. I hope they are still there. No, I know they are, because in the meantime I have secured them, among other things with GPS trackers. And actually they manage very well alone over the summer; where it is actually necessary to intervene is during the period when they are preparing for winter. Depending on how much honey you steal from them or leave for the bees, you need to feed them a little sugar solution so that they have something for the winter. Honey, after all, is nothing more than a sugar solution, of course with a number of other positive ingredients. And then you have to pay attention to ensuring that the space is right for the bees, that in winter it can’t get moldy, and you might need to adjust everything a bit.

Alstein: Since you have just mentioned the thefts. Who actually are the perpetrators that we are speaking about? Who, if you please, steals bees? What do they get out of it? Surely it can only be other beekeepers? Or is it vandals? Or why would anyone steal bees?

Siegling: Because they need some? I don't know. Because they want to sell the equipment. Actually I cannot imagine. There were two cases that happened recently at the university, they were...

Alstein: Oh, it happened on the university campus? Where were they?

Siegling: Yes, in Rotehorn Park, by the sports building, near the wheelhouse. I hope that is right. I hope our colleagues from the sports department don’t take offense!

Alstein: (laughs)

Siegling: The area is enclosed there. It is self-contained. That means that you have to get over a little fence. It is a little bit more than waist-high. Maybe even chest-high for me. And ultimately it really takes quite a bit of effort, and it was actually also the case the first time that the perpetrators came back and picked up the equipment that they had left behind beforehand. I was there, saw what had happened, came back again a week later because I wanted to pick up my remaining equipment - things like homemade benches - and another lot of things had disappeared.

Alstein: Yes. So I am not Rudi Cerne from “Aktenzeichen XY” [a TV show like Unsolved Mysteries or Crimewatch]. But in any case that points to a well-informed group of perpetrators. And somebody who can do something with the things they took. Because if it was a group walking by who had perhaps been celebrating a bit much... Whatever the reason... After all, somehow shopping trolleys get stolen that really only have one practical purpose. But so be it. Somebody actually wanted to get directly at the colonies and then the equipment and really went to a lot of trouble. It would all have to have been transported away. What is that all about?

Siegling: So now... I think...

Alstein: Isn’t there... in the beekeeping society...? Don’t you talk about it a lot there? Because somehow well...

Siegling: Yes, we do talk about security measures. You can build in surprises for those who try to take the hives away, so that they can’t do it. You can visibly wrap chains around them. You can build in GPS trackers inside, which react to vibrations when the hives are being moved.

Alstein: Has anyone ever caught anyone in the act? I would be really interested to know.

Siegling: No. I mean definitely somewhere somebody has been caught, where it was on a larger scale, I think I read an article about it once. It wasn’t here, it was somewhere further afield. But the police in Magdeburg, they were very nice, they recorded the details, but made it clear to me - and I agree - that it would not be possible to find whoever did it. Ultimately, these beehives are all very similar, if you haven’t individually marked them somehow, which means that it is hard to recognize them again. And you can't tell which bees are yours by their stripes or something.

Alstein: (laughs)

Siegling: And ultimately it is the case that everything can be sold or used somewhere else. But if I were to go there and say that could be mine... they are all very similar and the hive color is nothing special... If a mark hasn’t been burned into the wood or anything.

Alstein: Oh yes, ok, good. So you have already told us several times where the bees are located. And now, as a layperson, as a total amateur, looking from the outside: Since the honey is the “Campus Kleber”, it is our university honey. Why are the colonies not all living on our site here on campus, for instance on the roof, or somewhere? After all, we do now have - you can see them here in the surrounding area - such lovely bee meadows where the flowers are allowed to grow wild. Where they aren’t all cut down as soon as they come into bloom. So why aren’t they here?

Siegling: On the one hand we don’t want to leave them in such an open space, precisely because of the theft issue, because that is a known problem, and also because of the other thing that happens too - thankfully it hasn't happened to me so far - which is vandalism - for instance the hives are knocked over or something, if you go away for a short time or something. There are quite a few cases where that has happened too. We considered a few different ideas, the roof of the library, for example, where the hives would be visible. But first of all there are always reservations: bees, they are nasty stingy things that want to get at my jam sandwiches, which, actually, a bee hardly ever or never does, because in reality it is wasps that do that. Indeed. And then it is also the case that, of course, if they are placed somewhere here on the premises and lots of people walk past them, there might be some people who are allergic. With the bee colonies, I do not pay particular attention, for example, to meekness, to them being really mild. I believe that if the bees develop naturally, they should be able to quietly defend themselves. Their main enemies are not people. And if a horde of wasps invades and they sit around stupidly in their honeycombs and don’t pay them any attention, then that is not necessarily desirable. For this reason I don’t raise bees that are all that meek and it can sometimes be the case that a colony is a bit more disposed to sting. It isn’t true that as soon as you get to within five meters of the colony you will be attacked, but there are certainly individual bees who might occasionally get a bit agitated.

Alstein: (laughs)

Siegling: Be it because of the weather or for another reason. And then somehow fly at somebody and sting them. And that is natural.

Alstein: Perhaps they got out of bed on the wrong side. We all know how it can be. (laughs)

Siegling: Not a good advertisement.

Alstein: OK, I understand, yes, ok.

Siegling: And personally I also think - so there are actually various roofs that might perhaps be suitable - but in nature this type of bee lives somewhere in a tree... in holes in trees. Or sometimes it sets up home in a wall cavity, where, perhaps, it is not quite so cold. But putting them up on an exposed roof, even if it is perhaps sheltered - there is the sun, the weather would generally be more extreme, there is the wind, and especially in winter. Personally I am not really in favor of doing that, but at the moment I cannot say definitively one way or the other whether it is a good or bad location.

Alstein: Yes, but as a location, the city is ok these days? Again, from the point of view of a lay person, I would always think, “Okay, the bees need to get out somewhere in nature, where it is green.” Now I can see that there are more and more places in the city where flowers are being left to grow wild, which I think is a good thing. There have even been some bee meadows designated here on campus. Nevertheless, I find myself asking, “Where should they go, where can they collect what they need?” But it’s ok, right? The city is now ok as a home.

Siegling: These days cities often work out better than the countryside, depending on where you are.

Alstein: Why? Because of the monocultures in the agricultural areas?

Siegling: Monocultures. In our area it is actually very nice. We have false acacias all over the place in and around Magdeburg. Towards Brandenburg and in other regions too there are still big forests where the bees can at least find something. And then in combination with other blossoms, the bees actually manage relatively well. I would like to say that that is the case in the countryside too, in Möckern, for example, which is not a town, but more of a rural village.

Alstein: Careful, careful. Möckern is definitely a town. (laughs)

Siegling: Yes, and it is actually true that the bees have always found something and at the same time I know beekeepers from Lower Saxony. They talk about “maizification” there, because the predominant crop there is maize for biogas plants. And the bees do not manage very well there because they cannot find food. In summer in some cases they have to actually feed their bees in the rural areas so that they can get by. If, for example, the false acacia has finished flowering and there are no lime trees nearby, and afterwards in summer nothing else is coming into flower that they can fly to and everywhere is only full of maize, then the bees need help. In the city it is generally true that the trees that are there are good sources of nectar. And now, thank goodness, there are also a lot of these wild-flower meadows or allotments with fruit trees in spring and what have you. There is a relatively good amount of food for the bees to collect and naturally there are few pesticides too. There are other pollutants from traffic, for example. But the use of pesticides...

Alstein: ...weighs more heavily? Actually?

Siegling: Yes, yes, that is why I am hesitating. In agriculture in particular the fact is that pesticides are used over large areas. These days the spraying is carried out in such a way that, for example, the chemicals are applied below the flowers. For example, with rape: you can see that the tractors are no longer spraying like crazy all around the general area, but instead the spray nozzles hang down so that they apply the chemical at the bottom between the rows.

Alstein: Oh, ok. Is that actually done because of the insects, or why do they do that?

Siegling: Yes, that is one of the effects.

Alstein: Yes, ok.

Siegling: And among other things the spray is also supposed to be applied when the bees are not flying, and that kind of thing. So attention is being paid. And I am constantly amazed by how much the allotment holders, well, not all allotment holders - I don't want to tar them all with the same brush - but still, how many toxins, herbicides and pesticides are still used in allotments and private gardens and actually it is a lot. That is a negative effect in the city but does not account for most of it. So the town is a very good location and especially now, when we have something like we do in Magdeburg in the large park - that is actually almost perfect.

Alstein: That is nice to hear. After all there are lots of reasons for not wanting to live in the town or not to find it all that good. But here is something positive! So now we have come - and I’m really looking forward to this - I have prepared a quiz, André! (laughs)

Siegling: I will probably get everything wrong.

Alstein: No. Yes. But at least it will be fun. (laughs) This is our first podcast quiz, I’m really excited about it! You already mentioned it before: logically, people learn - it is clear to me too - as a beekeeper, you eventually learn to interpret the bees’ movements, and also the sounds they make as they fly. So now I have prepared four different insect sounds to play and I would like you - (laughs) - I am so excited about this, but I can tell from your face that you are a bit scared... But don't worry, you won't actually be drummed out of the club in disgrace, right? If the other members hear it.

Siegling: No, I don't think so. We can always cut it.

Alstein: Exactly (laughs). No. And then we won’t have lost anything! There are four insect sounds that I have prepared that I am going to play to you. And you need to see if you can identify the bee from among them. One of them is definitely a bee. Sound 1. Do you want to hear them all first, or do you just want to guess?

Siegling: If the main focus is on identifying the bee, then I would like to hear them all.

(Sound is played)

Alstein: I didn’t explain that quite right. Actually I have got a really nice A6 university notebook and organic ballpoint pen from my colleagues, Ms Frankmölle and Ms Ziemer from the merchandising department. I will give them to you if you not only manage to identify the bee, but perhaps also, let us say, you also manage to recognize at least one other insect. I mean, you could even hazard a guess, there actually aren’t that many. Would you like to listen again, or would you prefer to have a go.

Siegling: That was a little bit sharp just now. I would say that that was not the bee. That was perhaps more like a wasp or even a hornet.

Alstein: OK, then shall I leave it at that?

Siegling: Oh, I’ve got it wrong already! Was it wrong?

Alstein: Yes, but it was also not the bee. So you are right, it was not the bee, but the other suggestion was wrong. I’ll play the next one now.

Siegling: For the bees I would like something quiet, like the way they buzz in harmony around the hive entrance.

Alstein: (laughs)

(Sound is played)

Siegling: If a lot is going on, it can sound like that. That was almost a little bit too sharp for me too.

Alstein: (laughs) Well, perhaps it was somehow... I don't know.

Siegling: Better listen to all of them first!

Alstein: Yes, ok. Exactly.

Siegling: And then afterwards I will try to guess.

(Sound is played)

Alstein: Oh, this is great! Insect no. 3. You almost want to flap your hand around. (laughs)

Siegling: ... and no. 4?

(Sound is played)

Alstein: Somehow, for me, when I heard that, it sounded just like the Nürburgring, like motor sports somehow.

Siegling: There is a sort of roaring sound as if they were in a Coke can.

Alstein: Would you like to hear it again?

Siegling: No, I would say that of all those, number 2 was the bee.

Alstein: I’m not saying! Or shall I? Come on! You were right! No. 2 is the bee. That’s right! (laughs)

Siegling: Thank you very much. Can we hear the last one again?

Alstein: Yes, the racer. That was the applause. (laughs) I should have canceled that one! One moment! Here we are!

(sound is played)

Siegling: That last one was quite powerful. It could have been a bumblebee.

Alstein: I’ll... I won’t say anything just now. And I’ll play the first one again.

(sound is played)

Alstein: This is definitely a bit more friendly-sounding, right?

Siegling: Yes, then let’s say that this is the bumblebee.

Alstein: Aha. And then the one that we just had, the racer thing, what would that be?

Siegling: Then I think I would have to go with wasp for that one? Probably.

Alstein: Yes. And the one where you had the feeling that you would have to... with your hand, somehow?

Siegling: No, I can't think what that might be.

Alstein: Oh come on! So that is a bumblebee, right. Bee, right. Wasp, right. That was a fly just now.

Siegling: That was a fly?

Alstein: Yes, I think that is good enough for a notebook, André! Congratulations! Superb, that was great!

Siegling: Thank you - with help!

Alstein: With help. Very good! (laughs) Ah, that was fun. I think that we should always have a quiz in our podcast! Fantastic! So that notebook is yours, it really is a nice one. It is leather-bound and then there is a kind of elastic holder on it with an organic ballpoint pen, [a holder] that you can stick the pen into, they are available from the university shop where you can also buy the “Campus Kleber” honey that André and his bees make. Good.

Siegling: I’m very happy with that. Thank you.

Alstein: Yes, and now I would like to come back to the subject of ecology. Do you, in fact, see yourself more as a honey producer or as a protector of nature?

Siegling: Well, actually that relates to the change of perspective that I touched on earlier. So in the beginning, of course, it was the honey that interested me. For me, perhaps for others too, I was very keen. But I came to the point where after a couple of years I actually reached about half a ton of honey.

Alstein: Which is a lot? I assume.

Siegling: It is a lot! 500 kg makes a good 1,000 jars. That was actually what the colony managed, without any problems. It really amazed me at the time. My father, of course, helped a lot. Because all by myself I would not have managed and in the end it turned out that due to the time it took, I had to reduce it a bit. In the meantime I have two children and also had other private challenges to overcome so I reduced it a bit... and now I actually want to get a lot more involved in making sure the bees are well and happy. That has been the case for a few years now. I’m not really sure how to make it work, I read a lot, look a lot. There is what is known as species-appropriate beekeeping where people attempt to come more in line with the bee meadows, although we do not exactly know what the right thing is.

Alstein: Yes.

Siegling: So we really need to look and see what the benefits are. And as far as fighting the varroa mite is concerned, there is a lot more that can be done. You could almost say that the efforts here are in their infancy, even if there are a few individual pioneers who are trying to make use of what in some cases is very old knowledge. You have to pay attention to it and the honey yield might be reduced but then in turn you would also have to worry about it a little less. So actually, today, as beekeepers, we are concerned with it, if we do things normally, in the same way as we usually have in recent years. Which is also not wrong, because at present there is no other way of going about things. We are busy trying to fight the diseases and not just to harvest the honey, so to care for the bees throughout the year... and the bees have an incredible vitality. In summer, every day or from the late... or from spring, sometimes it even starts in February - the queen lays so many eggs that the sheer quantity of bees conceals the infestation - mainly by the varroa mite - in the colony. But when it reduces in winter or the breeding season drops off in late summer heading towards winter, and then the pests, so to speak, pounce on the bee population. And so it is the case that in August or September the colonies can collapse and often do so if they are not cared for. Of course it would be nice if we could get back to a situation where this insect, which has been around for millions of years, would be capable of surviving without intervention.

Alstein: Aha.

Siegling: And in Europe there are only a few pockets where the varroa mite has not found its way into colonies and even the wild honeybee colonies, of which there are actually hardly any, they are ones that have left their keepers through separation, through swarming, and have settled somewhere, they are colonies that are rarely permanent or last for long. This is being explored and researched with great interest with large populations that have survived for a long time. And we can learn a lot still, I believe, in the next few years. And now I have forgotten what you asked me in the first place. (laughs) Have I answered the question?

Alstein: No, actually I have too. But I think this is really interesting. It reminds me a bit about something that is happening in farming. In some cases people are starting to rediscover the old crop varieties. Yes, ok, that sounds a bit silly when you are talking about bees, but actually people are trying to get back to the bees’ natural existence and so... okay. Yes, that. No, that was interesting anyway. So it doesn’t matter what the question was. In our pre-recording chat you said something interesting, the sense of which was more or less: “We can earn money with the bees. That is why we do not talk enough about the other insects.” Perhaps you could explain what you mean by that again.

Siegling: Well, it’s like this: we are talking about flowers, about bee meadows, about the flower mixes that are being sown, in some cases on the margins of fields, on farms, with EU funding, that there are in the city. It is actually the case that many insects are disappearing without us noticing. It always makes me sad. Really sad, because when I walk through the new housing estates I see these gravel gardens and realize that it is dead space and not only for the bees, but actually for all the insects that live above and below ground. And that is actually the start of the food chain, where an awful lot is being destroyed from the bottom up. And really a lot can be done with relatively little to ensure that the bees, and not only the bees, but all insects, are able to find food and then the birds and then, in turn, other animals too. There are these lovely sites, if I am thinking about garden design, the cherry laurel is, for example, a lovely tree that actually is also visually very appealing. It is a bush that is very much in fashion but which actually for our insects...

Alstein: ...has nothing to offer.

Siegling: ...is sterile, the leaves are even toxic. So, I am not sure if I am describing it correctly now. But when the leaves fall to the ground, relatively little rots away. And there are considerably nicer solutions, better solutions, that in my opinion are also visually more attractive. But of course everything is in the eye of the beholder. The NABU (German Nature Conservation Society) has some nice pages that describe which plants are useful for attracting insects throughout the year/ There are, among other things, bird protecting hedges, that people can look at, that they can, so to speak... they can plant a hedge for different insects - that is butterflies and perhaps things that have more legs than the bees - where they can create a good food source and also a habitat which then has other impacts going forward, and everyone has an opportunity to help there. It isn’t always necessary to just throw flower mixes into the garden, which to many people - and I can understand this - look a bit like weeds, when half of the flowers have dried and then others grow up between them. Well, it is also possible to work with different perennial beds over the year. Lavender is something that attracts a whole host of different insects. And I can also make sure that my flower beds look nice throughout the year with plants flowering at different times. Of course this needs a bit more care than a gravel garden... but I have digressed yet again!

Alstein: No, no, not at all! It’s all good.

Siegling: So, when it comes to the bees - that was where we started - so, when it comes to the bees, I have relatively few worries, since in case of doubt people can earn a bit of money with them. And the honey can be sold. What we don't notice though, is that these days we hardly ever see butterflies. Other insects too that I know from the garden during my childhood, that I often saw, I hardly ever come across them now. If today sometimes I [see] a red admiral, I don't know if that is right now...

Alstein: I saw one yesterday and it was an event for everyone nearby. Suddenly everyone took out their mobile phones and took photos. It actually seemed like quite an exotic appearance.

Siegling: And these areas help quite a bit, but they are not a cure-all. Actually we need to have them in a relatively large number of places, and I think that the oases in different private gardens could really be very useful for insects.

Alstein: Yes, so, well, I’m being a bit flippant here, but basically it is the same old story: everyone can play their own small part, without having to put in too much effort. And now, perhaps, to finish with we could return to the link with the university. Can the university play its part better, do more?

Siegling: Well...

Alstein: Or are we already doing pretty well? That could be the case.

Siegling: So let me put it this way: there is a grounds and gardens department at the university. And when I started looking for locations for the bees in the beginning, I was always met with quite a defensive attitude from the various people in charge. Anyone who recognizes themselves now, should not feel criticized. I can understand their reservations.

Alstein: They can be our next guests!

Siegling: But when we got in touch with grounds and gardens, at the first site, that was the old boiler house in the Science Port, where a big chimney was still standing and still does, I think; they had just planted shrubs all around and made every effort. And now at the new site we found a lot of understanding. They advocated for us. So I think that there, there was a good, a positive attitude and as well there are the flowered areas that in some cases are being established now. I think that the uni - especially the people who are involved - are thinking about it, and that is really good. And otherwise it is just that we need more of them. So in the city of Magdeburg there are still a lot of green spaces. In recent years it has been the case, actually, that there is always something flowering. In the meantime here too, if we look from the university across the B1, we can see undeveloped sites. Only the edges are still mown, whilst the middle is left alone. These, I think, are all good signs. I think that awareness is slowly growing; of course there is always more that could be done. But I think things are slowly moving in the right direction. One thing that happened was instigated by the beekeeping society - unfortunately I cannot tell you the names otherwise I would make sure that they got the praise they are due - but there was an initiative by beekeepers who went out and about looking after flowered areas. So that also shows an awareness. And actually it isn’t about the bees there. So, if I have a flower meadow in the city, it isn’t the case that we will end up with kilos of honey, if the flowers blossom, the bees fly to them. Actually it is more about the other insects that we do not notice quite so much.

Alstein: OK, I think we have gone far past the time allotted. But that is because the subject is so interesting, and I just wanted to say that again. Really fascinating. Perhaps we should do another podcast together with the grounds maintenance and gardens department, or something. And I think, Ms Rümland from the Sustainability Office, who is perhaps listening now - hi! - would like that. Nevertheless, unfortunately we have to bring this edition to a close. We always have a final section to our podcasts, which we will just do very quickly now, where I will ask you to briefly complete the following sentences: The first sentence is What I, as a business information specialist, have learned from the bees is... composure, organization and to look at more things than just my computer. OK. (laughs) If I hear the words “varroa mite” then...

Siegling: ...I feel sad, because it is a symbol of our globalized world with all of the negative results of that.

Alstein: Good. Thank you. For a moment I was surprised. (laughs) And finally, I haven't written this one down so that you wouldn’t be able to prepare an answer in advance. [Quotes lyrics from a song called Maya the Bee] “In an unknown land, from not so long ago...”

Siegling: “... there was a bee that was very well known.”

Alstein: “Everyone spoke of her far and wide.” Great! But then I have something else. Yes, cool.

Siegling: Thank you very much.

Alstein: I would never have thought of it, but I guess you probably hear that a lot, right? The Maya the Bee story is somehow... if you are a beekeeper?

Siegling: No, people have moved on to other things now. But it does happen sometimes. But not too often.

Alstein: OK, well that brings us to the end. Thank you very much for coming and thank you to all of you out there for listening, wherever you may be. If - just to let you know again - if you want to try what Mr Siegling makes together with his bees, you can buy it from the university shop here on campus. And if you yourself would like to be a guest on this program, either because you can sing the whole of Karel Gott’s song, Maya the Bee, or for whatever other reason you think you would like to visit our studio, then you would be very welcome. Send an email to: or use a different channel to reach us. And if you like, and if necessary, your messages will, of course, be treated in the strictest confidence by us. So all that there is left to say now is, stay well! Thank you once again, André! I hope you all have a great summer and don’t let them drive you crazy! Bye!

Introstimme: „In die Uni reingehört“ – Der Podcast zur Arbeitswelt an der OVGU.